[Interview] Abir Al-Sahlani MEP: ‘Fight the patriarchy, and you know there’ll be a backlash’

MEP Abir Al-Sahlani may not be a household name, but she has been holding the European Parliament to account on matters of sexual violence, problematic rhetoric and gender equality since 2019.

Her work as a member of the European Parliament for the liberal Renew Europe has spearheaded safe access to abortion across the EU, and is now on the forefront of developing Europe-wide legal definition for rape based on giving consent.

Her outspoken criticism of conservative values in the European right as well as her resonating presence on social media have made her a subject of controversy, but internet hate and media tycoons haven’t stopped the impressive rate of her work.

You may have seen earlier this week that several men in the Czech Republic were arrested on charges of human trafficking for managing the accounts of young women on the adult entertainment platform OnlyFans, which is yet another way in which women can lose agency, become trafficked, and ultimately become victims of deep fakes. What are the risks for women in the artificial intelligence age, and how can the EU regulate these new types of women’s exploitation?

The online sexual abuse against women has taken on an industrial scale. Gender-based violence has ordinarily been one-to-one, or maybe you have a gang that has exercised gender-based violence against one woman. Of course, the personal experience, the devastation that it comes with has a huge impact for the woman, but it was on a smaller scale.

Now, this digital gender-based violence has taken it to an industrial scale. We’ve never had that before. We saw that during Christmas when this Grok app [an AI chatbot] produced, I think, over 11 million ‘nudified’ content of women without their consent, and that also included girls and children.

So this industrialisation of gender-based violence is incredibly dangerous, because not only is it happening against women, girls, children, but it is really damaging our democracy.

If I go online and say something that I’m fighting for, that goes against the patriarchy, you know that there will be backlash. I mean, this is the given price you have to pay. So besides the hate, the threats, the total dehumanisation of women, now we also have this, where your body is not even your own any longer online.

They can do whatever they like – as long as they have a picture of you – and they will never have to ask you for permission for what they will do to your body. It’s taking so much agency from women in the digital world. But it has also impacted public life: if I go into a debate, I know I’m going to pay a price as a woman, it is not against my ideas – it’s always personal, humiliating, sexualised. 

Now I can do it – but I wonder if I’m ever going to tell my daughter to fight for gender equality, because I know what the price is.

So I can take it. I signed up for this, but, what kind of society and public debate are we creating where women are always worried about this kind of backlash and violence exercised against them? This is actually damaging our democracy, because it has a supply chain. That supply chain is broken because women are not daring to enter, they are scared, they are shut down, they are silenced because of this digital gender-based violence. Our democracy will suffer.

I’m sick and tired of treating gender equality as a side issue. It is at the core of our democratic system, and if we’re not treating it as that, we are doing a disservice to the generations to come.

As the law often cannot advance as fast as tech, how can women protect themselves in this new age of sexualisation, when they may not even know their face has been artificially attached to pornography?

I already demanded that we forbid these platforms in the EU to be operating. I mean, I really do not owe neither Elon Musk [founder of Grok] nor Mark Zuckerberg [CEO of Meta] anything. Fuck them.

First, they have not built safety by design. Secondly, when their platforms are being used for these means, they’re not even taking responsibility.

If they cannot build safety by design in their own platforms, the platforms should not be operating, or these functionalities in the platforms should be forbidden. They are not entering our territories, and this is what we voted on not long ago in the LIBE committee, where we have a ban on nudifying functions and technologies. It can very well become reality in new legislation.

As the European Parliament pivots increasingly to the right, how do you maintain the momentum on feminist issues while remaining firm on your position in the centre? 

You have to become insane. No, sorry, that was a joke.